[ixpmanager] Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support
Martin J. Levy
mahtin at mahtin.com
Thu Jul 11 18:57:49 IST 2019
What Nick said!
Martin
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 7:15 AM Nick Hilliard (INEX) <nick at inex.ie> wrote:
> Right, ok. That paper was based on Nick Feamster's ideas from around
> 2013 - 2014. So there are two things here: 1) using openflow to program
> basic frame forwarding rules based on mac addresses, which has been done
> successfully at Toulouse IX and one or two other exchanges and 2) using
> openflow to implement internal IXP forwarding decisions and filtering
> based on higher level policy rules.
>
> There was a lively discussion about issue #2 at a Euro-IX meeting a
> couple of years ago. The general feeling from the IXP community was
> that imposing traffic routing policy at layer 2 wouldn't scale in
> production because IXP switches are typically resource-constrained.
> I.e. you would only be able to install a tiny number of rules before the
> switch would run out of hardware capacity to handle them. Obviously this
> stage would depend on what switch hardware was in use, but you could
> rule out using cost effective top-of-rack equipment and you'd need to
> start thinking about running overlays on layer 3 NPU based equipment.
> It would be quite expensive, per port.
>
> The second outcome from that meeting came from the IXP participants who
> were there. The exact words used by one major hyperscale person were:
> "Don't touch our traffic!".
>
> Despite BGP's well-known and well-understood shortcomings, they made it
> clear that the job of an IXP operator was to forward frames between the
> specified source and destination routers, and nothing more. All the
> hyperscales and large content networks have their own clear ideas about
> how they want their traffic to be forwarded around the place. They were
> crystal clear that they absolutely did not want IXPs interfering their
> policy routing decisions, any more than they would want the passengers
> in the bus fighting over control of the steering wheel: it tends not to
> end up well.
>
> Nick
>
>
> Haider Ali wrote on 11/07/2019 10:00:
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: *Haider Ali* <haiderrana45 at gmail.com <mailto:
> haiderrana45 at gmail.com>>
> > Date: Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] IXP Manager Developer Support
> > To: <mahtin at mahtin.com <mailto:mahtin at mahtin.com>>
> > Cc: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie
> > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>, Barry O'Donovan <barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> >
> > I couldn't see your message in my inbox yesterday. When I saw the
> > mailing list, then saw some other unread messages too. Thanks for your
> > reply Nick.
> >
> >
> >
> > This paper is focused on your answer:
> > https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~arpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf
> > <https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/%7Earpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf>
> >
> > Summary of this paper and my requirement:
> >
> > The three limitations of BGP are following which can be solved by
> > Software-defined exchange point:
> > • Routing only on destination IP prefix. BGP selects and exports
> > routes for destination prefixes. Networks cannot make more fine-grained
> > decisions based on the type of application or the sender. Type of
> > decisions may be application-specific peering, inbound traffic
> > engineering, server load balancing, and traffic redirection through
> > middleboxes
> > • Influence only over direct neighbors. A network selects among BGP
> > routes learned from its direct neighbors, and exports selected routes to
> > these neighbors. Networks have little control over end-to-end paths.
> > • Indirect expression of policy. Networks rely on indirect, obscure
> > mechanisms (e.g., “local preference”, “AS Path Prepending”) to influence
> > path selection. Networks cannot directly express preferred inbound and
> > outbound paths.
> > *I am more interested in the application specific peering and traffic
> > redirection through middleboxes. An application can be youtube and
> > middlebox can be a scrubber.
> > *
> > Its a whole paper to understand how SDN can help IXP. But for instance,
> > I want to route my traffic of youtube or Netflix (which is very high
> > these days) through some fixed route or routers then IXP won't help in
> > it as far as I know because it is assumed as a dumb switch. Instead, SDN
> > will help. The controller of SDN will tell to switch about the peering
> > or forwarding to required middleboxes etc will be compelling
> applications.
> >
> >
> > *For now, I just wanted to know that how should one start as a developer
> > if one intends to understand ixp manager and then convert to Sdn based
> > ixp manager.*
> >
> > The first goal I set is to connect my SDN based IXP (in which there is a
> > controller and switch) with IXP manager. I have built an SDN based
> > controller and switch with route server etc on OpenFlow. I needed an
> > interface on which ISPs come and *choose the policies *(which is
> > automatic step). I chose IXP manager for that.
> >
> > *Kindly guide me.*
> > I appreciate your help Martin and Barry.
> >
> > -Haider
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:34 PM Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:haiderrana45 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the help, Barry.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:31 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>> wrote:
> >
> > Haider,
> >
> > thanks for the detail below. I would suggest next time
> introducing
> > yourself as you have below from the beginning. The cost/benefit
> of
> > finding the time to help a student project (how it sounded to
> > me) is
> > vastly different to trying to help IXPs in Pakistan.
> >
> > I'll await your reply to Martin on what you're hoping to achieve
> > and
> > then see where we can help.
> >
> > Note there are a number of development emails around Laravel and
> > SDN /
> > OpenFlow / FAUCET in the archives of this mailing list. I
> > suggest you
> > start with them also and then follow up.
> >
> > - Barry
> >
> >
> > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 09:25:
> > > Sorry to disturb you Barry.
> > >
> > > It's not a college project. I do have experience in PHP. I do
> > have
> > > experience in full stack development. I am new to IXP but I
> > have a team
> > > who have experience in IXP. Learning IXP is not an issue. I
> > have some
> > > knowledge of OpenFlow too. Laravel Programming isn't that
> > difficult. My
> > > question was where to start as a developer. If you don't have
> > time then
> > > kindly give me the source material on this. Like I have seen
> > things in
> > > the documentation for development.
> > >
> > > This project is for the IXP at Islamabad, Pakistan. They do
> > many things
> > > manually. We have the funding to make that IXP the
> > software-defined
> > > exchange point. I am a research assistant on my part under the
> > > government IT advisor and a Stanford doctorate Dr. Zartash
> > Afzal Uzmi.
> > >
> > > Although my knowledge could be low, I am working at the
> > country level.
> > > We intend to deploy two or more IXPs in the future in
> Pakistan.
> > >
> > > With your little help, we at Pakistan can deploy your project
> > and can
> > > add value to your project of IXP Manager by making it SDN
> > based IXP manager.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>
> > > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Haider,
> > >
> > > please do correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you
> > have no real
> > > experience in IXPs in general or PHP / Laravel
> > programming? Is this
> > > perhaps a college project or something for you?
> > >
> > > Unfortunately I just do not have the time / bandwidth /
> > spare cycles to
> > > assist with such a project. Others on this list may - but
> > I do not. I
> > > just want to be upfront with you on this so you do not
> > mistake my lack
> > > of or limited participation in this discussion as being
> > rude or
> > > purposely unhelpful. It's purely a lack of available time.
> > >
> > > - Barry
> > >
> > >
> > > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 08:36:
> > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > > I want to understand how route server is
> > > configured at
> > > > the backend of IXP manager. Also, I want to understand
> the
> > > frontend of
> > > > each and everything in the IXP manager.
> > > > I have just installed the IXP manager. *How should I
> > start as a
> > > developer? *
> > > > I have the vague view that I have to inspect every
> > HTML frontend and
> > > > then go to its backend file. But don't know where
> > these files
> > > reside in
> > > > the system.
> > > >
> > > > *I have to first understand the IXP manager that how
> > is it linked
> > > to the
> > > > route server and how is route server configured. Help
> > me with
> > > this part
> > > > please first.*
> > > >
> > > > Then my *primary purpose or future goal *is to make an
> > SDN based
> > > > exchange point. If anyone has any little experience in
> > it then
> > > share,
> > > > please.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Haider Ali
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > INEX IXP Manager mailing list
> > > > ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>
> > > > Unsubscribe or change options here:
> > > https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Barry O'Donovan
> > > INEX Operations
> > >
> > > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > > +353 1 531 3339
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Barry O'Donovan
> > INEX Operations
> >
> > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > +353 1 531 3339
> >
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