[ixpmanager] ixpmanager Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
Haider Ali
haiderrana45 at gmail.com
Tue Jul 16 07:39:21 IST 2019
Dear IXP community/Nick/Martin,
I agree that there are constraints in issue #2 while implementing the SDN
based exchange point and members at IXP didn't want their traffic to be
interfered.
*My basic question was how to get started with the development of the IXP
manager which haven't been answered yet because it might be a basic
question*. I want an interface for my SDN based exchange point. The
discussion is going about why I need SDN and what are constraints etc. For
now, I know I need SDN and need an interface. Please help me with this.
Moreover, you mentioned Toulouse IX here in issue # 1.
>using OpenFlow to program
>basic frame forwarding rules based on mac addresses, which has been done
>successfully at Toulouse IX and one or two other exchanges
For now, I intend to only do issue # 1 with an interface. issue #2 is my
second task. Are there any known interfaces such as IXP manager for SDN
based exchange points? Has Toulouse IX opened sourced their project?
-Haider
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:58 PM <ixpmanager-request at inex.ie> wrote:
> Send ixpmanager mailing list submissions to
> ixpmanager at inex.ie
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ixpmanager-request at inex.ie
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ixpmanager-owner at inex.ie
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ixpmanager digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support (Nick Hilliard (INEX))
> 2. Re: Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support (Martin J. Levy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:15:31 +0100
> From: "Nick Hilliard (INEX)" <nick at inex.ie>
> To: Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com>
> Cc: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support
> Message-ID: <6e8eb345-4a2f-6092-a027-66d9d4b1e5e8 at inex.ie>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Right, ok. That paper was based on Nick Feamster's ideas from around
> 2013 - 2014. So there are two things here: 1) using openflow to program
> basic frame forwarding rules based on mac addresses, which has been done
> successfully at Toulouse IX and one or two other exchanges and 2) using
> openflow to implement internal IXP forwarding decisions and filtering
> based on higher level policy rules.
>
> There was a lively discussion about issue #2 at a Euro-IX meeting a
> couple of years ago. The general feeling from the IXP community was
> that imposing traffic routing policy at layer 2 wouldn't scale in
> production because IXP switches are typically resource-constrained.
> I.e. you would only be able to install a tiny number of rules before the
> switch would run out of hardware capacity to handle them. Obviously this
> stage would depend on what switch hardware was in use, but you could
> rule out using cost effective top-of-rack equipment and you'd need to
> start thinking about running overlays on layer 3 NPU based equipment.
> It would be quite expensive, per port.
>
> The second outcome from that meeting came from the IXP participants who
> were there. The exact words used by one major hyperscale person were:
> "Don't touch our traffic!".
>
> Despite BGP's well-known and well-understood shortcomings, they made it
> clear that the job of an IXP operator was to forward frames between the
> specified source and destination routers, and nothing more. All the
> hyperscales and large content networks have their own clear ideas about
> how they want their traffic to be forwarded around the place. They were
> crystal clear that they absolutely did not want IXPs interfering their
> policy routing decisions, any more than they would want the passengers
> in the bus fighting over control of the steering wheel: it tends not to
> end up well.
>
> Nick
>
>
> Haider Ali wrote on 11/07/2019 10:00:
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: *Haider Ali* <haiderrana45 at gmail.com <mailto:
> haiderrana45 at gmail.com>>
> > Date: Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] IXP Manager Developer Support
> > To: <mahtin at mahtin.com <mailto:mahtin at mahtin.com>>
> > Cc: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie
> > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>, Barry O'Donovan <barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick,
> >
> > I couldn't see your message in my inbox yesterday. When I saw the
> > mailing list, then saw some other unread messages too. Thanks for your
> > reply Nick.
> >
> >
> >
> > This paper is focused on your answer:
> > https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~arpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf
> > <https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/%7Earpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf>
> >
> > Summary of this paper and my requirement:
> >
> > The three limitations of BGP are following which can be solved by
> > Software-defined exchange point:
> > ? ? Routing only on destination IP prefix. BGP selects and exports
> > routes for destination prefixes. Networks cannot make more fine-grained
> > decisions based on the type of application or the sender.?Type of
> > decisions may be application-specific peering, inbound traffic
> > engineering, server load balancing, and traffic redirection through
> > middleboxes
> > ? Influence only over direct neighbors. A network selects among BGP
> > routes learned from its direct neighbors, and exports selected routes to
> > these neighbors. Networks have little control over end-to-end paths.
> > ?? Indirect expression of policy. Networks rely on indirect, obscure
> > mechanisms (e.g., ?local preference?, ?AS Path Prepending?) to influence
> > path selection. Networks cannot directly express preferred inbound and
> > outbound paths.
> > *I am more interested in the application specific peering and traffic
> > redirection through middleboxes. An application can be youtube and
> > middlebox can be a scrubber.
> > *
> > Its a whole paper to understand how SDN can help IXP. But for instance,
> > I want to route my traffic of youtube or Netflix (which is very high
> > these days) through some fixed route or routers then IXP won't help in
> > it as far as I know because it is assumed as a dumb switch. Instead, SDN
> > will help. The controller of SDN will tell to switch about the peering
> > or forwarding to required middleboxes etc will be compelling
> applications.
> >
> >
> > *For now, I just wanted to know that how should one start as a developer
> > if one intends to understand ixp manager and then convert to Sdn based
> > ixp manager.*
> >
> > The first goal I set is to connect my SDN based IXP (in which there is a
> > controller and switch) with IXP manager. I have built an SDN based
> > controller and switch with route server etc on OpenFlow. I needed an
> > interface on which ISPs come and *choose the policies *(which is
> > automatic step). I chose IXP manager for that.
> >
> > *Kindly guide me.*
> > I appreciate your help Martin and Barry.
> >
> > -Haider
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:34 PM Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:haiderrana45 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the help, Barry.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:31 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>> wrote:
> >
> > Haider,
> >
> > thanks for the detail below. I would suggest next time
> introducing
> > yourself as you have below from the beginning. The cost/benefit
> of
> > finding the time to help a student project (how it sounded to
> > me) is
> > vastly different to trying to help IXPs in Pakistan.
> >
> > I'll await your reply to Martin on what you're hoping to achieve
> > and
> > then see where we can help.
> >
> > Note there are a number of development emails around Laravel and
> > SDN /
> > OpenFlow / FAUCET in the archives of this mailing list. I
> > suggest you
> > start with them also and then follow up.
> >
> > ? ?- Barry
> >
> >
> > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 09:25:
> > > Sorry to disturb you Barry.
> > >
> > > It's not a college project. I do have experience in PHP. I do
> > have
> > > experience in full stack development. I am new to IXP but I
> > have a team
> > > who have experience in IXP. Learning IXP is not an issue. I
> > have some
> > > knowledge of OpenFlow too. Laravel Programming isn't that
> > difficult. My
> > > question was where to start as a developer. If you don't have
> > time then
> > > kindly give me the source material on this. Like I have seen
> > things in
> > > the documentation for development.
> > >
> > > This project is for the IXP at Islamabad, Pakistan. They do
> > many things
> > > manually. We have the funding to make that IXP the
> > software-defined
> > > exchange point. I am a research assistant on my part under the
> > > government IT advisor and a Stanford doctorate Dr. Zartash
> > Afzal Uzmi.
> > >
> > > Although my knowledge could be low, I am working at the
> > country level.
> > > We intend to deploy two or more IXPs in?the future in
> Pakistan.
> > >
> > > With your little help, we at Pakistan can deploy your project
> > and can
> > > add value to your project of IXP Manager by making it SDN
> > based IXP manager.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>
> > > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>> wrote:
> > >
> > >? ? ?Hi Haider,
> > >
> > >? ? ?please do correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you
> > have no real
> > >? ? ?experience in IXPs in general or PHP / Laravel
> > programming? Is this
> > >? ? ?perhaps a college project or something for you?
> > >
> > >? ? ?Unfortunately I just do not have the time / bandwidth /
> > spare cycles to
> > >? ? ?assist with such a project. Others on this list may - but
> > I do not. I
> > >? ? ?just want to be upfront with you on this so you do not
> > mistake my lack
> > >? ? ?of or limited participation in this discussion as being
> > rude or
> > >? ? ?purposely unhelpful. It's purely a lack of available time.
> > >
> > >? ? ? ? - Barry
> > >
> > >
> > >? ? ?Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 08:36:
> > >? ? ? > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > >? ? ? >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I want to understand how route server is
> > >? ? ?configured at
> > >? ? ? > the backend of IXP manager. Also, I want to understand
> the
> > >? ? ?frontend of
> > >? ? ? > each and everything in the IXP manager.
> > >? ? ? > I have just installed the IXP manager. *How should I
> > start as a
> > >? ? ?developer? *
> > >? ? ? > I have the vague view that I have to inspect every
> > HTML frontend and
> > >? ? ? > then go to its backend file. But don't know where
> > these files
> > >? ? ?reside in
> > >? ? ? > the system.
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? > *I have to first understand the IXP manager that how
> > is it linked
> > >? ? ?to the
> > >? ? ? > route server and how is route server configured. Help
> > me with
> > >? ? ?this part
> > >? ? ? > please first.*
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? > Then my *primary purpose or future goal *is to make an
> > SDN based
> > >? ? ? > exchange point. If anyone has any little experience in
> > it then
> > >? ? ?share,
> > >? ? ? > please.
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? > Sincerely,
> > >? ? ? > Haider Ali
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? >
> > >? ? ? > _______________________________________________
> > >? ? ? > INEX IXP Manager mailing list
> > >? ? ? > ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>
> > >? ? ? > Unsubscribe or change options here:
> > > https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> > >? ? ? >
> > >
> > >
> > >? ? ?--
> > >
> > >? ? ?Kind regards,
> > >? ? ?Barry O'Donovan
> > >? ? ?INEX Operations
> > >
> > > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > >? ? ?+353 1 531 3339
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Barry O'Donovan
> > INEX Operations
> >
> > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > +353 1 531 3339
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:57:49 -0700
> From: "Martin J. Levy" <mahtin at mahtin.com>
> To: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> Cc: Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support
> Message-ID:
> <CAMDrUPtYmjPe=
> J0QDyTX_YhOiMKGMB9r2UPE2O56sJkP2u3c6g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> What Nick said!
>
> Martin
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 7:15 AM Nick Hilliard (INEX) <nick at inex.ie> wrote:
>
> > Right, ok. That paper was based on Nick Feamster's ideas from around
> > 2013 - 2014. So there are two things here: 1) using openflow to program
> > basic frame forwarding rules based on mac addresses, which has been done
> > successfully at Toulouse IX and one or two other exchanges and 2) using
> > openflow to implement internal IXP forwarding decisions and filtering
> > based on higher level policy rules.
> >
> > There was a lively discussion about issue #2 at a Euro-IX meeting a
> > couple of years ago. The general feeling from the IXP community was
> > that imposing traffic routing policy at layer 2 wouldn't scale in
> > production because IXP switches are typically resource-constrained.
> > I.e. you would only be able to install a tiny number of rules before the
> > switch would run out of hardware capacity to handle them. Obviously this
> > stage would depend on what switch hardware was in use, but you could
> > rule out using cost effective top-of-rack equipment and you'd need to
> > start thinking about running overlays on layer 3 NPU based equipment.
> > It would be quite expensive, per port.
> >
> > The second outcome from that meeting came from the IXP participants who
> > were there. The exact words used by one major hyperscale person were:
> > "Don't touch our traffic!".
> >
> > Despite BGP's well-known and well-understood shortcomings, they made it
> > clear that the job of an IXP operator was to forward frames between the
> > specified source and destination routers, and nothing more. All the
> > hyperscales and large content networks have their own clear ideas about
> > how they want their traffic to be forwarded around the place. They were
> > crystal clear that they absolutely did not want IXPs interfering their
> > policy routing decisions, any more than they would want the passengers
> > in the bus fighting over control of the steering wheel: it tends not to
> > end up well.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > Haider Ali wrote on 11/07/2019 10:00:
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > From: *Haider Ali* <haiderrana45 at gmail.com <mailto:
> > haiderrana45 at gmail.com>>
> > > Date: Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:51 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] IXP Manager Developer Support
> > > To: <mahtin at mahtin.com <mailto:mahtin at mahtin.com>>
> > > Cc: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie
> > > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>, Barry O'Donovan <barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Nick,
> > >
> > > I couldn't see your message in my inbox yesterday. When I saw the
> > > mailing list, then saw some other unread messages too. Thanks for your
> > > reply Nick.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This paper is focused on your answer:
> > > https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~arpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf
> > > <https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/%7Earpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf>
> > >
> > > Summary of this paper and my requirement:
> > >
> > > The three limitations of BGP are following which can be solved by
> > > Software-defined exchange point:
> > > ? Routing only on destination IP prefix. BGP selects and exports
> > > routes for destination prefixes. Networks cannot make more fine-grained
> > > decisions based on the type of application or the sender. Type of
> > > decisions may be application-specific peering, inbound traffic
> > > engineering, server load balancing, and traffic redirection through
> > > middleboxes
> > > ? Influence only over direct neighbors. A network selects among BGP
> > > routes learned from its direct neighbors, and exports selected routes
> to
> > > these neighbors. Networks have little control over end-to-end paths.
> > > ? Indirect expression of policy. Networks rely on indirect, obscure
> > > mechanisms (e.g., ?local preference?, ?AS Path Prepending?) to
> influence
> > > path selection. Networks cannot directly express preferred inbound and
> > > outbound paths.
> > > *I am more interested in the application specific peering and traffic
> > > redirection through middleboxes. An application can be youtube and
> > > middlebox can be a scrubber.
> > > *
> > > Its a whole paper to understand how SDN can help IXP. But for instance,
> > > I want to route my traffic of youtube or Netflix (which is very high
> > > these days) through some fixed route or routers then IXP won't help in
> > > it as far as I know because it is assumed as a dumb switch. Instead,
> SDN
> > > will help. The controller of SDN will tell to switch about the peering
> > > or forwarding to required middleboxes etc will be compelling
> > applications.
> > >
> > >
> > > *For now, I just wanted to know that how should one start as a
> developer
> > > if one intends to understand ixp manager and then convert to Sdn based
> > > ixp manager.*
> > >
> > > The first goal I set is to connect my SDN based IXP (in which there is
> a
> > > controller and switch) with IXP manager. I have built an SDN based
> > > controller and switch with route server etc on OpenFlow. I needed an
> > > interface on which ISPs come and *choose the policies *(which is
> > > automatic step). I chose IXP manager for that.
> > >
> > > *Kindly guide me.*
> > > I appreciate your help Martin and Barry.
> > >
> > > -Haider
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:34 PM Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com
> > > <mailto:haiderrana45 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the help, Barry.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:31 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Haider,
> > >
> > > thanks for the detail below. I would suggest next time
> > introducing
> > > yourself as you have below from the beginning. The cost/benefit
> > of
> > > finding the time to help a student project (how it sounded to
> > > me) is
> > > vastly different to trying to help IXPs in Pakistan.
> > >
> > > I'll await your reply to Martin on what you're hoping to
> achieve
> > > and
> > > then see where we can help.
> > >
> > > Note there are a number of development emails around Laravel
> and
> > > SDN /
> > > OpenFlow / FAUCET in the archives of this mailing list. I
> > > suggest you
> > > start with them also and then follow up.
> > >
> > > - Barry
> > >
> > >
> > > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 09:25:
> > > > Sorry to disturb you Barry.
> > > >
> > > > It's not a college project. I do have experience in PHP. I
> do
> > > have
> > > > experience in full stack development. I am new to IXP but I
> > > have a team
> > > > who have experience in IXP. Learning IXP is not an issue. I
> > > have some
> > > > knowledge of OpenFlow too. Laravel Programming isn't that
> > > difficult. My
> > > > question was where to start as a developer. If you don't
> have
> > > time then
> > > > kindly give me the source material on this. Like I have seen
> > > things in
> > > > the documentation for development.
> > > >
> > > > This project is for the IXP at Islamabad, Pakistan. They do
> > > many things
> > > > manually. We have the funding to make that IXP the
> > > software-defined
> > > > exchange point. I am a research assistant on my part under
> the
> > > > government IT advisor and a Stanford doctorate Dr. Zartash
> > > Afzal Uzmi.
> > > >
> > > > Although my knowledge could be low, I am working at the
> > > country level.
> > > > We intend to deploy two or more IXPs in the future in
> > Pakistan.
> > > >
> > > > With your little help, we at Pakistan can deploy your
> project
> > > and can
> > > > add value to your project of IXP Manager by making it SDN
> > > based IXP manager.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM Barry O'Donovan
> > > <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>
> > > > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> > > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Haider,
> > > >
> > > > please do correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like
> you
> > > have no real
> > > > experience in IXPs in general or PHP / Laravel
> > > programming? Is this
> > > > perhaps a college project or something for you?
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately I just do not have the time / bandwidth /
> > > spare cycles to
> > > > assist with such a project. Others on this list may -
> but
> > > I do not. I
> > > > just want to be upfront with you on this so you do not
> > > mistake my lack
> > > > of or limited participation in this discussion as being
> > > rude or
> > > > purposely unhelpful. It's purely a lack of available
> time.
> > > >
> > > > - Barry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 08:36:
> > > > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > > > I want to understand how route server
> is
> > > > configured at
> > > > > the backend of IXP manager. Also, I want to
> understand
> > the
> > > > frontend of
> > > > > each and everything in the IXP manager.
> > > > > I have just installed the IXP manager. *How should I
> > > start as a
> > > > developer? *
> > > > > I have the vague view that I have to inspect every
> > > HTML frontend and
> > > > > then go to its backend file. But don't know where
> > > these files
> > > > reside in
> > > > > the system.
> > > > >
> > > > > *I have to first understand the IXP manager that how
> > > is it linked
> > > > to the
> > > > > route server and how is route server configured. Help
> > > me with
> > > > this part
> > > > > please first.*
> > > > >
> > > > > Then my *primary purpose or future goal *is to make
> an
> > > SDN based
> > > > > exchange point. If anyone has any little experience
> in
> > > it then
> > > > share,
> > > > > please.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Haider Ali
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > INEX IXP Manager mailing list
> > > > > ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> > > <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>
> > > > > Unsubscribe or change options here:
> > > > https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Barry O'Donovan
> > > > INEX Operations
> > > >
> > > > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > > > +353 1 531 3339
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Barry O'Donovan
> > > INEX Operations
> > >
> > > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > > +353 1 531 3339
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > INEX IXP Manager mailing list
> > ixpmanager at inex.ie
> > Unsubscribe or change options here:
> > https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://www.inex.ie/pipermail/ixpmanager/attachments/20190711/c0403625/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> ixpmanager mailing list
> ixpmanager at inex.ie
> https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ixpmanager Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
> *****************************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://www.inex.ie/pipermail/ixpmanager/attachments/20190716/4a7a0304/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the ixpmanager
mailing list